Just wondering something...

[JesUS_Juuice]

I want to first off say Devilchrono... i like this post alot so far! its very cool to hear everybodys diff views on why they do what they do.

Growing up i always had loved cars from the days of playing with hot wheels.. to getting my first car.. ive always had a passion for cars and making it my own. Its just like the people that cant understand why anybody at all would put money into there car period (whatever kind of car it may be) they just dont have that passion like we all do... thats just what makes us US..

1) Like many people have already said i like to be the underdog... i like to take something that isnt supposed to be fast and make it fast or somwhat fast/look good. I like to put that extra time into something like a 4cyl even if it is for something thats not gonna add that much HP its much more then just throwing parts at car.. its the time and work you put into your car. As for "why a honda" im still new here and have only had the car for 2 weeks or so.. but i know that i have a great and a well built car that is gonna last me.. in my previous cars ive had you just cant get that out of a domestic car (just how feel) all around hondas are good cars.. cheap parts.. easy to work on.. ext ext..

2) As for the loud exhaust... i prefer the quite exhaust.. there are some cars with nice sounding loud exhaust.. just few and far between now days!

[00siandrew]

My 2000 Si is 99% stock but want to build it someday for the following reasons:

As others have said these cars are incredibly simple and there is a HUGE variety of parts available for the 90-00 Hondas especially.

The technology in these motors is incredible. Everyone always says "it doesn't matter if you make 100hp/L when you don't even make enough torque to pull a tampon out of a bucket of grease". I say, since when do I need torque to take turns fast? That's why I make 160 flywheel hp and have an 8k red line (220 flywheel hp and a 9k red line in my s2k). I will be the first to admit my Si is STUPID SLOW in a straight line, but then I point out the fact that straight roads are for fast cars, curvy roads are for fast drivers. Don't get me wrong I love a car that can run a sub 10 1/4 mile, but turns is where it's at for me.

The biggest reason though is the fact that these cars have so much more personality than say a cavalier, focus or any other car of the same genre. I've had my Si for 5 and half years and have put over 100k miles on it. Not once has it ever failed me. It has 172k miles and runs as strong as could be. For a car that has been so loyal to me I want to repay the favors.

Kind of a side note. I like to think how if, and I know it's totally an if, but if Honda built an N/A 6.0 that kept the same kind of hp/L and tq/L as the S2K motors it would make roughly 660 flywheel hp and 450 ft. lbs. That's pretty awesome to think about! Honda was never into that though. Ford and Chevy could never build an N/A motor to produce that.

[5thgen]

Kind of a side note. I like to think how if, and I know it's totally an if, but if Honda built an N/A 6.0 that kept the same kind of hp/L and tq/L as the S2K motors it would make roughly 660 flywheel hp and 450 ft. lbs. That's pretty awesome to think about! Honda was never into that though. Ford and Chevy could never build an N/A motor to produce that.

They (chevy, ford) are getting much closer to those numbers you have. Even if honda ever built a 6 liter, I'm pretty sure they still wouldn't get 660 out of it.

The mentality of keeping the hp/tq in line with motor size just doesn't work. You would have to adjust bore/stroke unless you plan on making this a 12 cylinder motor. Adjusting bore/stroke will change how much you can rev....and overall all the extra moving parts in the motor....I don't see how they would keep a 9k redline. Which with the s2000/honda in general, rpm is how they actually make power.

I hear where you are coming from, and the s2000 motor IMO is still very impressive. But I'm going to say its kind of like magazine racing.




**edit**
Has any other car manufacturer come out with something similar to vtec?
I know some cars have the changing timing control, but I've never seen anyone else actually have 2 powerbands (cam profiles) on the same motor.

It still amazes me that honda is pretty much the only company that excels with this, and its been out 20 years.

[Devilchrono]

They (chevy, ford) are getting much closer to those numbers you have. Even if honda ever built a 6 liter, I'm pretty sure they still wouldn't get 660 out of it.

The mentality of keeping the hp/tq in line with motor size just doesn't work. You would have to adjust bore/stroke unless you plan on making this a 12 cylinder motor. Adjusting bore/stroke will change how much you can rev....and overall all the extra moving parts in the motor....I don't see how they would keep a 9k redline. Which with the s2000/honda in general, rpm is how they actually make power.

I hear where you are coming from, and the s2000 motor IMO is still very impressive. But I'm going to say its kind of like magazine racing.




**edit**
Has any other car manufacturer come out with something similar to vtec?
I know some cars have the changing timing control, but I've never seen anyone else actually have 2 powerbands (cam profiles) on the same motor.

It still amazes me that honda is pretty much the only company that excels with this, and its been out 20 years.

Ford and GM (Chevy) are very close to those number now, which is nice to see. GM is even doing it while starting to scale down the size of their motors to help meet the new EPA requirements that are gonna hit the auto makers in the next couple of years. One thing I've never understood is the need of such a high redline, do the cars really make power that high? I admit that I've never taken the time to look into exactly how the smaller motors work and am only used to v6 and v8 cars, which don't need to rev near that high to make peak hp/tq.

And no, as far as I know, no one besides Honda has anything like vtec. I know Ford has/had "ztec", but I think it's just the name of it's small motor line. I thought Mistu had/has Mivec, but I never bothered to look into that either.

I want to first off say Devilchrono... i like this post alot so far! its very cool to hear everybodys diff views on why they do what they do.

Thanks, that was the point here. I want to understand things and hopefully learn some things about these cars as well. I admit that I don't know if I'll ever own a Honda car, but in the quest for automotive knowledge, one should try to never be closed minded. I know that there are a lot of very knowledgeable people on here when it comes to these cars and it seemed like a good place to start with this question and to pick peoples brains while providing an interesting topic for all to be able to participate in without fear of being judged or made fun of.

[sharpie]

I rev that high cause my car makes power that high and is built to take it. It keeps building power and the higher I am in the powerband the more power it makes.

[ryansDc5]

I honestly don't have an answer, and I ask myself these questions daily. I'm losing intreset fast, and if i could find a vette for my car I'd do it in a heart beat

[Waffles]

A lot of car companies Have a VTEC like system. Honda just markets it better

[5thgen]

Ford and GM (Chevy) are very close to those number now, which is nice to see. GM is even doing it while starting to scale down the size of their motors to help meet the new EPA requirements that are gonna hit the auto makers in the next couple of years. One thing I've never understood is the need of such a high redline, do the cars really make power that high? I admit that I've never taken the time to look into exactly how the smaller motors work and am only used to v6 and v8 cars, which don't need to rev near that high to make peak hp/tq.

Since the vtec motors can have 2 different cam profiles, it can have one for ....say 0-4000rpm range, and the other for 4000-9000rpm range.

Now the 0-4000 rpm range's biggest advantage is drivability, while the high cam profile is "performance". These vtec motors can usually keep a very flat torque line (albeit not very high) all the way to redline. And if you are not dropping torque, keep going up in the rpm until you do (if you can).

If the ls1 could keep its torque curve flat......it would've been at least a 400whp motor (probably closer to 500).

Look at the torque curve drop on a stock ls1 dyno.




Here is a k-series motor



And usually when the same motor is forced induced, it keeps a similar curve. Only it is more drastic (when the turbo builds pressure, etc.).






So yeah, if the ls1 could keep a flat torque line to redline.......scary what it could put out.

I looked at a couple of 2011 mustang gt dynos....and they don't lose a lot up top. Maybe 50-70 ft. lbs. from peak torque until redline.

[sharpie]

Here's the dyno sheet of a b20vtec the power never falls off

[Devilchrono]

I didn't realize that the vtec motors could/would still actually make that power up that high. I just kind of thought it was more of a gimmick to brag about.

I'll admit though, that's pretty cool that the power doesn't really fall off that high and now I am starting to understand why/how people that do it right spend the money to make sure their motor can handle the stress of revving that high to squeeze out all the power the setup can make