vtec turbo issues

[Redline]

ok i have a 96 civic w/ d16a bottom end d16y8 head full gredy turbo kits, right now there is a p2e in my car cause when i had the p2p installed everytime i would hit vtec my car would sit on its face and run like crap. runs fine till you hit vtec, so i pullled the p2p out and istalled a p2e now it runs fine besides i throw a few codes and my vtec dont work. what could cause this problem.. i am so confused on what to do. i am have the car tuned with aem fic and i just want to make sure all my codes are clear and my car runs decent before i go have it tuned

[Phate]

The p2e ecu is non vtec.

Good job driving your stuff untuned. I hope it grenades.

[sharpie]

P2e is a non vtec ecu

[sharpie]

Chris beat me to it lol

[rickles8099]

only correct way to get your car to work with the turbo is to switch from obd2 and go to obd1. i thought several people have told you this already.

[Phate]

Chris beat me to it lol

Yeah I had to edit to toss some p-hate in there.

[Redline]

P2e is a non vtec ecu

i know the p2e is a non vtec ecu, why does my car run like crap when vtec engages on the p2p when i had it installed is the question. and i heard you dont have to covert to obd1 to run right the aem fic6 is the obd2 piggyback system.

[Phate]

i know the p2e is a non vtec ecu, why does my car run like crap when vtec engages on the p2p when i had it installed is the question. and i heard you dont have to covert to obd1 to run right the aem fic6 is the obd2 piggyback system.

Well lets use some simple thinking. So do you have the piggyback shit installed? Do you know if its changing the maps!? Do you have other than stock injectors?

[rickles8099]

quick google search here can result in findings like following:

Standalone ecu vs a piggy back computer
(I think it is physically possible to write a 500 page book on this so I will try to be brief and cut out as much of the fat as possible – stick to the essentials… hopefully)

So your car is boosted from the factory, or your car has been equipped with aftermarket boost or you have an n/a car and are planning on boosting whatever the case, you are interested in buying an aftermarket computer but you are a little confused, its o.k we have all been there, most of us still are (including me – the blind leading the blind in this article ? ) So which ecu is best for you? This umbrella question encompasses a whole host of other questions all of which I will try to address.

First we should understand how and what engine parameters your ecu takes in to determine the tune of your car. There are three main parameters (maps) when tuning your car:
1.) Fuel (A/F Ratio)
2.) Cam angle *note*
3.) Ignition timing

*note* When I talk about cam angle, I will be referring to today’s newer cars with variable cam timing…

O.K. so your car uses these three parameters to build a “map” or tune for your vehicle.

Next let’s explain what a standalone ecu and piggy back ecu are and what they can and can’t do.

Stand Alone ECU
There are many different types of stand alone ecu’s that all encompass their own unique features, to many to talk about, so I will try to stick to the roots of the equipment.
A stand alone ecu is an ecu that is separate from your cars stock ecu (in most cases, Hondata would be an exception). A standalone ecu lets you build new ignition cam angle and ignition maps for your car, starting from scratch. This is the main difference between a piggy back and standalone and also the most important so I think I’ll leave it at that.




Piggy back ECU and or A/F Controller

Again, like the standalone ecu, there are many different types of piggy backs with their own unique functions. A piggy back ecu or a/f controller takes signals from your sensors and modifies them to trick your ecu into reading a different value.


Ok. So which ecu is for you. Once having a fairly in depth idea (more then the knowledge base that this article provided) of how your ecu builds maps and how a piggy back and standalone ecu work the answer should become quite obvious.

If you have a n/a car and you are planning on boosting it, there really is only one reasonable choice. A stand alone ecu. This is because a naturally aspirated cars ecu is programmed for a na engine. The main concern is your ignition timing. An na tuned car (i.e your stock car) will have ignition maps that are way to advanced for a boosted application causing detonation, which is detrimental to your engine.
Well doesn’t a a/f controller and piggy back computer control ignition timing?
Yes but not effectively. An a/f controller takes readings from your maf/map sensor and alters them trick your ecu into reading a different signal. And since all your maps are tied in together, your maf/map sensor signal also will move where your ecu reads its ignition timing on the map. your maf/map is not only used to maintain air/fuel, but its also used by the ecu to determine load, and load is used for determining timing advance, this has the side effect of fooling the ecu into advancing timing beyond what is safe. These readings will also effect where your cam angle is, which more then likely will not be at the optimal angle for your boosted application.

Newer piggy backs like the e-manage ultimate can control your ignition timing separately from your airflow readings, but there are still catches. You are able to change ignition timing maps but the e-manage simply changes the output signal the ecu sends to the coils. The problem is the ignition timing numbers are not always consistent with the changes you make to the load sensor, whether its your map, or maf sensor. So you are guessing the timing numbers. The stock ecu also has multiple maps it can run for different conditions so you are not always consistent with the tune.

A stand alone ecu lets you build, from scratch, completely new ignition timing maps and fuel maps and cam angle maps. Optimal for your boosted application so you can run a safer tune that will make more power.

A car that has come from the factory already has optimal ignition timing maps and there for really only needs a a/f controller or a piggy back that can compensate in a relatively small window range. Unless you plan on drastically changing your stock boosted air flow characteristics, a piggy back will suit you just fine.

[Redline]

for how cheap i got the aem fic and the budjet i am on i think this is the best route for me, but again why would my car run fine untill vtec enages. with the p2e non vtec my car runs fine, but on the p2p when vtec engages it wont go above 5500rpm


OVERVIEW

The F/IC gives users with OBD-II race vehicles and non-factory forced induction systems the ability to retard ignition and deliver accurate amounts of fuel without the need for outdated FMUs or “boost hiding” controllers. This system works parallel to the factory ECU preventing tuning limitations due to complex factory timing patterns. 21x17 maps with configurable load and RPM breakpoints are easily accessed with the F/IC's Windows-based tuning software. The F/IC draws power from PC USB interface for quick and easy calibration changes.

PRECISE FUEL DELIVERY

The F/IC intercepts the signal to the stock injectors, allowing the user to modify pulse-width by +/-100%. The F/IC is among the only piggy-back systems that can decrease injector pulse-width, allowing the user to drive larger aftermarket injectors* while still maintaining proper air / fuel ratios. This powerful system can also tap into the factory injector signal and work independently to drive up to six (6) additional injectors.

TIMING RETARD CONTROL

The F/IC can retard timing from the factory system based on engine RPM and load inputs. This is achieved by intercepting and delaying the outputs from the cam and crank position sensors to the engine- with no adverse affect on applications equipped with variable cam timing.

SENSOR CALIBRATION & CONTROL

The F/IC can also be used to recalibrate / clamp the MAF sensor, eliminating common problems with non-boosted factory MAFs. The on-board MAP sensor allows for proper fueling in boosted conditions.