K series Swap????

[Silver Knight]

??? So if its just called a motor swapped car, then isnt you lsvtec just a head swapped motor technically? hybrid=gas+electric car, not lsvtec or any other worthless head swap(IMO).

i take it you never read the book Honda/Acura Engine Performance by Mike Kojima?? you may want to take a look at it and you just might learn something.

A hybrid is not just a motor that runs on gas and electric but taking two parts of the motor (head and block) and combining them together and making them work.



http://www.honda-tech.com/zeroforum/18

And look ^^ you're beloved honda-tech even has a section pertaining just to these "worthless headswaps". There's not one topic in that section that even deals with a gas+electric car (e.g.- Honda Insight). And whats so worthless about these head swaps anyways? Most of the Hondas out there that are used as drag cars on a professional level are mostly " worthless headswap" hybrid motors pushing around 800+hp. i'd like to see your beloved greenhouse car do that.

[bildo16]

i take it you never read the book Honda/Acura Engine Performance by Mike Kojima?? you may want to take a look at it and you just might learn something.
A hybrid is not just a motor that runs on gas and electric but taking two parts of the motor (head and block) and combining them together and making them work.



http://www.honda-tech.com/zeroforum/18

And look ^^ you're beloved honda-tech even has a section pertaining just to these "worthless headswaps". There's not one topic in that section that even deals with a gas+electric car (e.g.- Honda Insight). And whats so worthless about these head swaps anyways? Most of the Hondas out there that are used as drag cars on a professional level are mostly " worthless headswap" hybrid motors pushing around 800+hp. i'd like to see your beloved greenhouse car do that.

hmmmm, first off, i may not sit at home a read h-t, BUT, i do go work and deal with real car issues at a dealership daily. honda-tech was built for the honda enthusiast, not the mechanically inclined people who work on them daily, you have to have a password to get on the REAL Honda Tech.
so you are saying that you can produce MORE power with an accord block/type s head, than a k24a2 can? what is the compression ratio of your motor right now? (im really not sure) how high can you rev your motor safely? oh yeah dont forget, the accord/type s "hybrid" has a similar issue being that the reliefs cut into the piston arent deep enough and there is the chance of smacking a valve from over revving. and im pretty sure most profeesional drag racers are using blocks that cost more than your amazing champ white jdm clip. so after all the effort, time, and money doing this oh so great head swap, you cant even rev your amazing motor as high as a stock motor. my time is not worth building a motor just to have vtec. if you even say something about d-series, just as any other honda, it must be built, or close to fully built to make it fast. plus, d-series motors arent expensive at all, so why make it a "hybrid" with a headswap? to have vtec? worthless.

PS id LOVE to see you race a v6 hybrid accord, i would bet a large sum of money on the accord.

[2nrsOfSpringfield]

the the K series are all vtec, some just dont have it on the exhaust side. Next if you take a stock K24A4 Element short block and put a K20a2 head on it it WILL make more power and higher in the rpm band do the the fact that the K24 head only flows around 260cfm stock were the K20a2 head flows 290cfm. Also the "worthless" or better heads, like the K20a2, have vtec on both cams and the cams are way more aggressive cams to boot. Now you are correct in that you cant just put a K20a2 head on a K24a1 crv or k24a3 accord short block because of contact issues. The K24a1,3,4 all are around 9.6-7/1cr and if you put the K24a4 pistons in a K24a1 or 3.

[JesSi]

so you are saying that you can produce MORE power with an accord block/type s head, than a k24a2 can?

Assuming the Accord block has different internals (e.g. TSX pistons/rods or CRV pistons/rods since piston-to-valve clearance is an issue in the k24a3/4) for the hybrid to be possible it might be arguable that it could very well produce more power than a k24a2 can considering the k20a2 intake cam sprocket allows for 50 degrees of advancement and the k24a2 is limited to 25 degrees, so it would have a tunability edge.

Also the "worthless" or better heads, like the K20a2, have vtec on both cams and the cams are way more aggressive cams to boot. Now you are correct in that you cant just put a K20a2 head on a K24a1 crv or k24a3 accord short block because of contact issues. The K24a1,3,4 all are around 9.6-7/1cr and if you put the K24a4 pistons in a K24a1 or 3.

Another difference is the "real" i-VTEC motors have 3-lobe cams, the economy have 2-lobe cams. The real i-VTEC motors have an intake cam that can continuously change cam timing. You can however, bolt a k20a2 head onto a k24a1 block without having clearance issues. You are right about not being able to do the k24a3/4 though...

[Silver Knight]

hmmmm, first off, i may not sit at home a read h-t, BUT, i do go work and deal with real car issues at a dealership daily. honda-tech was built for the honda enthusiast, not the mechanically inclined people who work on them daily, you have to have a password to get on the REAL Honda Tech.
so you are saying that you can produce MORE power with an accord block/type s head, than a k24a2 can? what is the compression ratio of your motor right now? (im really not sure) how high can you rev your motor safely? oh yeah dont forget, the accord/type s "hybrid" has a similar issue being that the reliefs cut into the piston arent deep enough and there is the chance of smacking a valve from over revving. and im pretty sure most profeesional drag racers are using blocks that cost more than your amazing champ white jdm clip. so after all the effort, time, and money doing this oh so great head swap, you cant even rev your amazing motor as high as a stock motor. my time is not worth building a motor just to have vtec. if you even say something about d-series, just as any other honda, it must be built, or close to fully built to make it fast. plus, d-series motors arent expensive at all, so why make it a "hybrid" with a headswap? to have vtec? worthless.

PS id LOVE to see you race a v6 hybrid accord, i would bet a large sum of money on the accord.

and do you personally own this oh so fucking amazing v6 accord hybrid? i highly doubt it. yes i am revving to 7500 right now because i have my stock ls pistons in and also on a stock p28. my compression right now is about 10.1:1 which isn't bad considering a stock LS is 9.6:1 and i also gained over 30 hp doing the head swap. when i put in my itr pistons/rings/arp rod bolts and my chip for my ecu then yes i will be able to rev to about 8200. and then coming spring when i build the head, then i will bump up the rev limiter as its being tuned. also last i checked when i did my head swap i believe i beat a ep3 civic Si with i/h/e along with K-Pro by half a car and my car was on a ls transmission with only header and exhaust at the time done to my setup, hell i even beat one when i had done my swap didn't even have vtec wired up. so please, enlighten me again. people do headwaps to gain hp and something hondas lack, torque. who says you cant rev your motor as high as a stock one? look at dale, he is revving to almost 9 with his setup.

also i haven't been on honda tech in over 3 years so i could care less if that was the REAL one or not. I also work at a dealership too, so what are you trying to prove??

[bildo16]

and do you personally own this oh so fucking amazing v6 accord hybrid? i highly doubt it. yes i am revving to 7500 right now because i have my stock ls pistons in and also on a stock p28. my compression right now is about 10.1:1 which isn't bad considering a stock LS is 9.6:1 and i also gained over 30 hp doing the head swap. when i put in my itr pistons/rings/arp rod bolts and my chip for my ecu then yes i will be able to rev to about 8200. and then coming spring when i build the head, then i will bump up the rev limiter as its being tuned. also last i checked when i did my head swap i believe i beat a ep3 civic Si with i/h/e along with K-Pro by half a car and my car was on a ls transmission with only header and exhaust at the time done to my setup, hell i even beat one when i had done my swap didn't even have vtec wired up. so please, enlighten me again. people do headwaps to gain hp and something hondas lack, torque. who says you cant rev your motor as high as a stock one? look at dale, he is revving to almost 9 with his setup.
also i haven't been on honda tech in over 3 years so i could care less if that was the REAL one or not. I also work at a dealership too, so what are you trying to prove??

that one statement says a lot. dale is not stock, you are, you cannot rev your motor to 8200 rpms, my stock gsr could, your comp ratio is lower than a stock gsr meaning all the work those fine people over in japan did to create cams that are efficient with the stock comp ratio of the gsr goes to waste when you lower the compression (unless bosted) so you are not seeing the full potential of a half ass build, 1 you CANNOT rev your motor as high as a stock gsr, 2 you are not seeing the best of your "hybrid" due to your lower comp ratio. what exactly do you do at that dealership anyways?

[Silver Knight]

that one statement says a lot. dale is not stock, you are, you cannot rev your motor to 8200 rpms, my stock gsr could, your comp ratio is lower than a stock gsr meaning all the work those fine people over in japan did to create cams that are efficient with the stock comp ratio of the gsr goes to waste when you lower the compression (unless bosted) so you are not seeing the full potential of a half ass build, 1 you CANNOT rev your motor as high as a stock gsr, 2 you are not seeing the best of your "hybrid" due to your lower comp ratio. what exactly do you do at that dealership anyways?

:PDT_popc:

i take it you didn't read my last post carefully. the reason why im still on my stock ls pistons are because when my car went down due to a blown headgasket i needed to get it up and running and since i had everything for the headswap at that time to make it RUN, i went ahead and did it. all my bottom end parts are at Dale's right now waiting to go to the machine shop to get pressed in. now if i had my pistons in and had my chip in my ecu, then yes i would be able to rev to 8200. SAFELY. im making slightly more than people who have i/h/e that are able to rev to 8k whereas im only going to 7500 so i dont see what your getting at. you're right im not seeing the full potential of my motor setup but i will shortly. and what do i do at the stealership you ask? i detail cars in and out. so what if im not a mechanic. That does not make me mechanically inclined in any way. You can go on and say you are a mechanic at Honda all you want, its not going to affect me in any way. its just a position. nothing more, nothing less.

[bildo16]

:PDT_popc:

i take it you didn't read my last post carefully. the reason why im still on my stock ls pistons are because when my car went down due to a blown headgasket i needed to get it up and running and since i had everything for the headswap at that time to make it RUN, i went ahead and did it. all my bottom end parts are at Dale's right now waiting to go to the machine shop to get pressed in. now if i had my pistons in and had my chip in my ecu, then yes i would be able to rev to 8200. SAFELY. im making slightly more than people who have i/h/e that are able to rev to 8k whereas im only going to 7500 so i dont see what your getting at. you're right im not seeing the full potential of my motor setup but i will shortly. and what do i do at the stealership you ask? i detail cars in and out. so what if im not a mechanic. That does not make me mechanically inclined in any way. You can go on and say you are a mechanic at Honda all you want, its not going to affect me in any way. its just a position. nothing more, nothing less.

and there lies the difference, then you rmotor will not be stock, then you will have a decent build on your hands, my point the whole time was that people just tossing a head off of this car onto this cars block calling it something special, its half assed and worthless imo, now if you take your route (future route) then youre doing it right, basically building an original vtec motor with some oil line mods.

[2nrsOfSpringfield]

and there lies the difference, then you rmotor will not be stock, then you will have a decent build on your hands, my point the whole time was that people just tossing a head off of this car onto this cars block calling it something special, its half assed and worthless imo, now if you take your route (future route) then youre doing it right, basically building an original vtec motor with some oil line mods.

how many LS/B20vtecs have you personally put together and or tuned on the dyno? We took a 95 gsr with good boltons, a tuned vafc, and a LSD B16 tranny that was running contestant 14.2s in the 1/4 and installed a 100% stock B20z shortblock and retuned it. (The B20z is 9.6/1cr and when you swap on a GSR head it jumps to about 10/1cr, basically the same as a stock GSR. The B20z also come with a vtec oil pump stock) The car dropped .3 to now running 13.9s in the 1/4mile. With Hondata I could have pulled even more power out of it. The power band had only moved down 200rpm at the end of our dyno session. This setup has been running as a daily driver/ track toy for several years now. The owner does some 1/4 racing but mostly autoX. This is only one example of many LS and B20 vtects we have done over the last 10 years.

[J8k'S CRX]

good points made but lets get back to the topic at hand...


K SWAPS:hello: