sleeving and port-n-polish anyone?

evoman33 · Post by **evoman33** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:40 pm

Yes it's been done before. But why not be smart? the only reason for the sleeving that it being done only because the added comfort in know that this will wistand nearly anything that the customers throw at it. Your only limitation on power would be the # in your bank account. I feel better if my customer feel awesome and unworried about his motor that is being built for him. Im looking out for my customer. Hey i was wondering about the tunertoys rod everything i see and hear a good but do they hold up as well as crower? and do you mean the tt scat rods?

N2HIFI · Post by **N2HIFI** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:55 pm

i had a built mini me before that used eagle h-beams, so i compared the TT rods to eagles and from "my view" they are very similar but have been designed a little differently, they changed them so you do not have to mod the block as much to make them work (with the h-beams you have to notch the block) so with tht TT's you still have to just not as much, they also stated they lightened them a little more for less rotating mass but did not lose any of the duability/stregnth of the h-beam design.

I have also head that they are made in the same plant as another rod manufacter and use the same design, price is just cheaper cause tt is not as big of a name. (just like everything else in the world lol) I think the company is probe, but the differences are that the Tt rods come with better rod bolts which allow more hp and higher revs.

TT= tuner toy rods

chris

N2HIFI · Post by **N2HIFI** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 4:01 pm

b18b-t;37402 wrote:lol i was thinking the same thing.. your building a motor for 30psi with stock sleeves?.. dont say we didnt tell you when your motor explodes.. what motor btw?

there is this thing called tuning and if you build the motor right and tune is correctly you can do ALOT of things that people say can be done. A b-16 will do over 400hp on stock rod/piston/block before you need to replace the pistons NOT the rods. But hell i am sure already knew this right

chris

Post by **budget_crx** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 4:22 pm

So how long do you expect this thing to last? I have no doubt in my mind that a stock block anything can handle 30psi or more (I think we have all seen videos of that probe lol) but is it really worth all the effort to have sooo much money put into an engine that it will crap out on in a few short years? Now i dont know about you, but I dont think its worth it. If you really want an engine that will impress some people build it so it lasts. You can go ahead with your "notched rods" liked you claimed you were doing before but I am not one of those "they did it once on hondatech, that means i can do it" kind of people. I like to think of things in a realistic way, goals that can actually done, not just "said" magazine (or interent forum) racing only gets you so far.
So anyway, when you get your engine done and I get my sleeved engine done we'll race. hell, you can even race the Buick if you want. But until then I will still have my doubts on how this engine will last, dont take it personally, but you say you've built a bunch of honda engines, but where are they at? If i knew some specs about these and what kind of numbers they put down I know I wouldnt be as quick to doubt your capabilities. So let us know when this stock sleeved monster is done, I want to see it for my own eyes.

:mblah05:

N2HIFI · Post by **N2HIFI** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 6:05 pm

Jake are you serious? I had the first Built D-series n/a motor in stl louis 161hp to the wheels on the motor. Ask Trost he has ALL my old parts from the motor except the block. I have also had 6+ hondas all modded in some various forms from built motors or sprayed cars. This will be my first turbo car.

Sorry i am not a magazine racer i had SRP pistons and eagle rods before and after Researching all the new stuff out i found out for what i want to do. I bought the parts i wanted and proven parts not what some tool says will work

Exactly how will i be impressing anybody with a motor that will last longer then i will own the car? Sorry i am going for numbers, loooong term reliability is second place sorry. I probley wont own this car for longer then 2 years after its built if that long, i'll get bored and want somthing different of faster.

As it is now even with the fully built motor and what not its probley still going to not be the fastest thing i own. So far there are 6 guys who have the identical motor build as me (some supporting mods are different but still) and all their motors have over 10k on them and have had NO issues. Seeing as how i have 3 cars and the bike the car will probley only see weekends and track days which is fine by me so 10k is well over a years worth of abuse and if in a year the motor blowes o'well what am i out 2g if that ill just rebuild a new motor and go from there and upgrade whatever part blew.

this is a budget build up make as much power as possible and go as fast as possible for a budget. If i wanted to spend ALOt of cash going fast i would have started with a dart sleeved B-series block (crv/vtec turbo build) but i think i will have more fun with this the anything.

and sure when i am finished we can run them i am always up for some runs

chris

b18b-t · Post by **b18b-t** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 8:24 pm

N2HIFI;37481 wrote:there is this thing called tuning and if you build the motor right and tune is correctly you can do ALOT of things that people say can be done. A b-16 will do over 400hp on stock rod/piston/block before you need to replace the pistons NOT the rods. But hell i am sure already knew this right

chris

Not trying to be an ass here but ive done my research and have had lots of experience tuning/building motors.. The point i was making is that if your going to be dumping all this money into rods, pistons, head work etc then why would you want to risk watching it all go down the drain by pushing stock sleeves wayyyy over their limits? I know and have personally seen stock sleeved b's in the 400+ range. But, and this is a big but; the tuning has to be so precise and you will still be flirting with disaster. if your looking for 400 hp why are you trying to push a smaller turbo to 30psi when you can get the right turbo for the job and have it be in its efficiency range. I'm not doubting or insulting your intelligence either. sure people take stock b's up to 400 but it defiantly wont be long until they have a huge hole in the side of their block and then have to do it over again
edit.. i didnt see the post above.. if the cars just a weekend/track car then go for it!!

JustRob · Post by **JustRob** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 10:21 pm

ImAJandILikeToSuckMenOffForMoney · Sat Apr 21, 2007 10:50 pm

:iagree: lol

N2HIFI · Post by **N2HIFI** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 6:31 am

b18b-t;37513 wrote:Not trying to be an ass here but ive done my research and have had lots of experience tuning/building motors.. The point i was making is that if your going to be dumping all this money into rods, pistons, head work etc then why would you want to risk watching it all go down the drain by pushing stock sleeves wayyyy over their limits? I know and have personally seen stock sleeved b's in the 400+ range. But, and this is a big but; the tuning has to be so precise and you will still be flirting with disaster. if your looking for 400 hp why are you trying to push a smaller turbo to 30psi when you can get the right turbo for the job and have it be in its efficiency range. I'm not doubting or insulting your intelligence either. sure people take stock b's up to 400 but it defiantly wont be long until they have a huge hole in the side of their block and then have to do it over again
edit.. i didnt see the post above.. if the cars just a weekend/track car then go for it!!

its so hard to have a discussion over the internet about things because to have the same level of educated banter it would take a novel.

so i'll try it this way just so everybody is on the same page and so its easier to see where i am going with this build. 30psi is a estimate, from looking at what the other guys are making hp wise and at what boost wise there is a constant close to 30psi (26+) = 375hp+.All these builds are using .57 trims or comparable turbo, even using a pretty decent size turbo they still are running alot of PSI to achive these numbers being put down.

Now as i see it obviously the larger turbo the more air flow which equals the same power at less psi, the problem is that the larger the turbo the more power/time it takes to get it to spool, even using a low AR its still going to take a bunch especially if your talking a 70 trim. B-series motors having a benefit of larger bore and the second cam can move more air faster and thus spool up a much larger turbo then a d-series can. So when comparing turbo sizes and efficiency ranges you can only compare them D to D or B to B not B to D.

I am looking at running a 60 trim with a AR of .48 because this should provide me with a quick spool and make the power i want at only 26psi which will remove some of the stress on the block. Now if i can find a larger efficient turbo which will make the power i want at a lower psi with a decent spool then i will buy it as long as it does not cost a arm/leg.

Don't get me wrong doing all this on a stock block my sound crazy but who cares if the motor goes i have a spare block sitting in the basement and d-series block are a dime a dozen unlike a b-series, its all about the budget cheap 11 sec buck o'fun mobile

peace chris

Spork · Post by **Spork** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 7:22 am

alright, I reached a compromise, rather than delete all of the 'off topic' posts (it had been moved to the review section) I decided to preserve one of the few good technical discussions we've had in a long time and I created dual threads. Sooooo... let the debate ensue!(even tho I think it might be over at this point)

stlhondas