B-series vs. H-series

[Spork]

I will say, from talking to the former head tech at Street Speed, that h-series into an EF does not seem very practical, the only accessory he was able to retain was the alternator :doh: b-series at least affords you the option of retaining power steering and a/c.

[99PreludeSh]

I will say, from talking to the former head tech at Street Speed, that h-series into an EF does not seem very practical, the only accessory he was able to retain was the alternator :doh: b-series at least affords you the option of retaining power steering and a/c.

Most people put an H in a light car to go fast not to drive the course, so PS and ac is usually not needed.

[irevto9k]

power steering really by most people would not be missed i mean u really dont notice its goine untill u are sitting still. Like my rsx has power assist steering or w/e either way it suxs but i really wouldnt want it to have awesome power steering anyways i like haveing to try to turn the car a lil. So yea who cars about power steering lol

[b18b-t]

I am lazy so i just copied some of this info from an old post at hondaswap. com

CONS OF THE H22 INTO A CIVIC; INTEGRA

*h22a is 60lbs heaver than a b18c with a/c power stearing ext..

*parts are more money, and harder to come by for cheep like its b16/18 conter parts

*if you want to put forged pistons in you have to resleave the motor, i will explane why if you want me to but for now we will just leave it at that.

*beacuse you must resleave for the pistons it make running anyhting over 9psi fairly expensive and a lot of work.

*it is a little bit of a tricky swap to get in the bay of a civic.

*to turbo you have to get slim radiator fans

*when you shift a h22a with a stock transmition at redline you fall about 200 rpms out of vtec, so a vtec controler is a great idea, or go a little deeper in to the redline (indicated redline is 7,400. fuel cut off is at 8,200)

*a bit of under-steer


if you have a 92-95 civic:
easiest swaps- b16 SiR2, 94-95 b18-b/c/c1/c5, b16a3
harder swaps- b16a2, 96-01 b18-b/c/c1/c5
difficult swaps- b16a Sir1, b18a, h22, f22

if you have a 96-98 civic:
easiest swaps- 96-98 b18c/c1/c5/b
hard swaps- 99-00 b16a2, 99-00 h22, f22, b16 sir1, b18a

The extra weight and size play a significant role in handling. You get understeer thats why you don't see crx's with h22's all over the tracks.. I could go on but you get the idea.

[Spork]

to recap:

But really it shouldn't come to opinions. If you want to make smart decisions then you go with the facts.

Where are these facts? You read your little b boards and PROVE to me where they are because people build good b's and people build good h's. Links would be nice too.

I don't need links, I have something better EXPERIENCE. I've been in the honda game for a long time now and i was just saying if you want to make good decisions with your money then you go with a b IN A CIVIC OR INTEGRA ... and yes the trannys are better then the h's.. thats why people have designed something called an h2b plate.. It allows the h-series guys to use b series transmissions on the h series motors.

By that statement you just made it just shows you dont know how to build an H series engine. Because if theres no proven facts then ITS AN OPINION.

How does that show that i couldn't build an h series motor? And yes it is a proven fact that the SLEEVES are thicker on a b-series motor, and the transmissions take more abuse and have better gearing.

Im not talking about how thick the sleeves are, we are talking about which is better for power and which is cheaper to build.

b's FTW!

You can build a b while using the stock sleeves aned stock vtec head; put in some rods and pistons and make over 400 at the wheels reliably FOR CHEAP.. having a block sleeved is extremely expensive, Oh and my fault not all b's have strong sleeves. The b20s are weak.

Unfourtanetly there will never be facts of which one is cheaper or which one can hold more power.

Why are you so sure about that? People have been tinkering and pushing these motors to their limits for a long time. Start the thread and ill supply a tons of links..

so providing links that state that b's can push so much power while H's can do the same proves that b's are better motors??? OKKKKK

I NEVER SAID ANYTHING LIKE THAT.. It started as you saying swap a h in over a b. I said b's have stronger sleeves, are way cheaper to swap into a civic or integra, weigh less, and have better transmissions. Almost any motor can make insane power with strong parts inside it. I wasn't trying to make you mad, but it looks like i offended you in some way or another.

And then I said I have read stock b's hold 250hp and blow and stock H's hold 350hp and NOT blow. How do b's have better trannies when I know of quite a lot of people having to replace the synchros?
No you didnt tick me off im just saying that this stuff is everyones opinions, there is no proven fact that b's are betetr than h's, and h's arent better than b's.

Reading and experiencing are two different things.. People who blow their motors with that little power have bad tunes. Plain and simple.. Looks at my numbers.. i've been there on a completely stock non vtec b18 for over a year now 25k+ miles and im confident it could still take more. Im not praising one motor over the other.. B's are cheaper plain and simple

How is a B cheaper? I know of someone who bought a B for 4k and turbod it for 1.5k. I know someone who had an H and tranny and turbod and tuned for 1.5k. How is that cheaper? Im failing to see this.

Yeah but just for knowledge sakes the B's can make more power on stock sleeves, weigh less, have better transmissions, and the aftermarket part development is unreal. Now the K's... well they are on a whole other level. People making 600+ on stock bottom ends. They are amazing.

I have read of b's making 250hp on stock sleeves and blow and I have read of h's making 350hp on stock sleeves and being fine. Its how you build it. And h's weigh more yeah but if you have enough power, weight isnt much of an issue to some.

Its all about how you tune the motor not build it.. there are plenty of people at 500hp on stock sleeves.. The sleeves come down to the tune.. and for the price of swapping in an h you can swap and build a b to make twice as much power.

Sorry I meant tune, but I dont see how price is in effect here, if you look hard enough you can make just as much power on each motor for the same amount, its just that people want to find parts right away and dont look for the deals. On preludepower someone had an h22 and turbod it for $1500 and ran a 12.6.

avg. b series stock motor (good street power) is around 300whp. I imagine you could push the envelope more and still last for a good bit of time.

Motors can blow at 180whp.....they'll stay together at 550whp (all major internals stock). Just a matter of a good setup and a good tune.

Yeah in a prelude right? Its not just a direct swap like the b's are for the civics and integra's. Don't get me wrong the h22's are great motors,but the b's have been perfected over the years and are alot cheaper to swap.

Actually no it was in an ef, it can be done for a very low price if you know what your doing.

Thats true, but most of the people dont know how to weld and make custom adjustments, so they pay to have it done. And its almost impossible with 1500 to swap in an H and build a turbo kit, have it tuned, etc. You would have to be a god of sorts.

I dont see how its impossible if you have the motor and tranny and do EVERYTHING yourself, its possible. Ask the crx guys a homemade turbo is not that much, just search around a little bit.

i don't need to search. I am the king of homemade turbo setups :blunt: I am simply stating if your looking to go fast in a civic or integra; b's are the way to go. Cheaper, thicker stock sleeves, better trannys, and lighter.

But really it shouldn't come to opinions. If you want to make smart decisions then you go with the facts.

Where are these facts? You read your little b boards and PROVE to me where they are because people build good b's and people build good h's. Links would be nice too.

I don't need links, I have something better EXPERIENCE. I've been in the honda game for a long time now and i was just saying if you want to make good decisions with your money then you go with a b IN A CIVIC OR INTEGRA ... and yes the trannys are better then the h's.. thats why people have designed something called an h2b plate.. It allows the h-series guys to use b series transmissions on the h series motors.

By that statement you just made it just shows you dont know how to build an H series engine. Because if theres no proven facts then ITS AN OPINION.

How does that show that i couldn't build an h series motor? And yes it is a proven fact that the SLEEVES are thicker on a b-series motor, and the transmissions take more abuse and have better gearing.

Im not talking about how thick the sleeves are, we are talking about which is better for power and which is cheaper to build.

b's FTW!

You can build a b while using the stock sleeves aned stock vtec head; put in some rods and pistons and make over 400 at the wheels reliably FOR CHEAP.. having a block sleeved is extremely expensive, Oh and my fault not all b's have strong sleeves. The b20s are weak.

Unfourtanetly there will never be facts of which one is cheaper or which one can hold more power.

Why are you so sure about that? People have been tinkering and pushing these motors to their limits for a long time. Start the thread and ill supply a tons of links..

so providing links that state that b's can push so much power while H's can do the same proves that b's are better motors??? OKKKKK

I NEVER SAID ANYTHING LIKE THAT.. It started as you saying swap a h in over a b. I said b's have stronger sleeves, are way cheaper to swap into a civic or integra, weigh less, and have better transmissions. Almost any motor can make insane power with strong parts inside it. I wasn't trying to make you mad, but it looks like i offended you in some way or another.

And then I said I have read stock b's hold 250hp and blow and stock H's hold 350hp and NOT blow. How do b's have better trannies when I know of quite a lot of people having to replace the synchros?
No you didnt tick me off im just saying that this stuff is everyones opinions, there is no proven fact that b's are betetr than h's, and h's arent better than b's.

Reading and experiencing are two different things.. People who blow their motors with that little power have bad tunes. Plain and simple.. Looks at my numbers.. i've been there on a completely stock non vtec b18 for over a year now 25k+ miles and im confident it could still take more. Im not praising one motor over the other.. B's are cheaper plain and simple

How is a B cheaper? I know of someone who bought a B for 4k and turbod it for 1.5k. I know someone who had an H and tranny and turbod and tuned for 1.5k. How is that cheaper? Im failing to see this.

[99PreludeSh]

Hmm weird my fuel cut is at 9 and yes I will get video of that, so thats false.

I have seen h22 parts for less then b parts by searching the net, thats false.+

Didnt you say this was NOT sleeving the block, so why even mention it?


Most people build a 10 second honda to go in a straight line, not in circles.

[b18b-t]

Oh yeah and for the most important part.. typical h22 swap prices into ef,eg,ek and da's average about 5.5k and up to 8k with auto to manual conversion. Typical b swaps go for around 3k. These include motor, transmissions, ecu, and if needed a wiring harness + any custom fabrication needed (which h22's need).

[99PreludeSh]

Oh yeah and for the most important part.. typical h22 swap prices into ef,eg,ek and da's average about 5.5k and up to 8k with auto to manual conversion. Typical b swaps go for around 3k. These include motor, transmissions, ecu, and if needed a wiring harness + any custom fabrication needed (which h22's need).

Yeah if you take it to a SHOP.

[irevto9k]

geez well this thread is over now...lol anyways understeer in any front wheel drive would be a problem h22 would make it a little bit easier to understeer but i think it would depend on driver if this was really a problem. And most people i think dont much care about the understeer just want straight line power. Me on the other hand i love handleing thats where a bulk of my future money is going to go in my car after my brakes of course. I love windy twisty roads not so much a fan of drag raceing

[Spork]

Hmm weird my fuel cut is at 9 and yes I will get video of that, so thats false.

I have seen h22 parts for less then b parts by searching the net, thats false.+

links?

do you have a vafc or something that will measure accurately? I know that for b swaps the tach reads high in the upper rpm range, so it *could* say 9 and actually be around 8200 :dunno:

lets see some evidence or supporting arguement on both sides