turbo'n my car!!

big pipe · Post by **big pipe** » Wed Aug 22, 2007 3:49 am

i think the turbo would work fine, i was gettin 17 psi (full boost) off of a 2.0l before 3000 rpm, but supposedly changing the td04 to a vf22, at the same boost was a 50-70 hp gain all due to the cfms of the turbo

JustRob · Post by **JustRob** » Wed Aug 22, 2007 5:27 am

.:si:.;61885 wrote: 16g turbo I'd do some more research on turbos before you choose that one.
intercooler(not sure on measurements yet..) This is a pretty vital part of your setup, do some more research on intercoolers before you start getting into wanting to build your motor
skunk2 stage 2 turbo vtec cams Don't for get that you need upgraded valvetrain to use these cams. And why bother with doing all that headwork without a PnP?
9:1 pistons dont care on brand How can you not care what brand? This has to be one of the most unintelligent things I've heard in a while. Sorry.
downpipe Research what size piping your going to need
intercooler piping Again, research what size piping your going to need
all the little things for the turbo set up Theres a lot of little things you need to worry about with this setup. These are usually the most important things
need a new greddy evo2 exhaust system w/ regular cat in it...The piping might be a little small for your setup. I'd go with a test pipe with this as well, but thats just my opinion

Read the bold font...

5thgen · Post by **5thgen** » Wed Aug 22, 2007 6:15 am

Say you pressurize the plenum and runners post throttle body....at 10 psi. The motor will only take in what it can....I don't see how charge piping makes that much of a difference when there is still a bottleneck throttle body. Even if you matched your throttle body to the charge piping size.....I still don't see how that will make the motor take in a dense/larger charge.

Just like bigger exhaust flows more....a bigger turbine/housing will help do the same. As long as you find a turbo that is effecient in the usable powerband, you will be fine.

bildo16 · Post by **bildo16** » Wed Aug 22, 2007 11:25 am

what can your head flow vs. what can your turbo flow??

Post by **budget_crx** » Wed Aug 22, 2007 7:27 pm

rickles8099;61913 wrote:turbo size does not matter. its the amount of cfms youre flowing. ive told people this over and over again, but no one listens. 10psi on a t4 is the same thing on the exact same motor/setup(chargepiping, throttle body, intake manifold, etc) as 10psi on a rhb5 as 10psi on a 16g. except on the bigger turbos, you will have more turbo lag and the person with the smaller turbo will get you off the line while youre building boost. so if you want to really get picky, you can be faster on a smaller turbo with the same amount of boost.

I still cannot believe you say this. All other things put aside (which are CLEARLY restrictions, and i believe everyone knows that a system flows only as well as its most restrictive part) stating that the size of a turbo will not have an effect on the overall flow of a system is absurd. 10psi in a T4 is NOT the same as 10psi in an RHB5, in any system. Look at the compressor maps for the two for yourself. The RHB5 map has been converted to show CFM and psi for easier understanding. Both maps DO NOT include any system pressure drop so they are equivalants of the same setup. clalculate the pressure drop (in the pressure ratio) of 1psi or so for yourself if you dont believe me.

As you can see with this RHB5 at 10psi (1.68 pressure ratio) the turbo can only reach a maximum of LESS THAN 300cfm, and thats with a shitty 60% efficiency rating, right at the choke line.

The T4 on the other hand at apporx. 10psi (1.68 pressure ratio) is pushing OVER 300psi with a 72% efficiency rating. and is closer to 500cfm before it reaches the choke line.
Even though a system can only handle x amount of CFM, saying that increasing the size of a turbo will not alter the cfm rating is crazy, the turbo plays just as important part of flow as the size and bends of chargepiping or the size of your TB/ intake runners. 10psi is not 10psi, if this were the case there would be no point in you upgrading from your old RHB5 to the T3/T4 you have now. in fact, with your logic your car would be faster if you would have kept the IHI turbo. :tard:

rickles8099;61945 wrote:i thought you were smart enough to know that that was an example :embarass: so take out the 1 inch diameter and put 2 inch diameter in. i know there are stock cars out there with 2 inch chargepiping. it still means the same thing, 2 inch diameter piping will still flow less cfm as 3 inch would. and 3 inch diameter piping flows less than 4 inch diameter piping.

I am, i never disagreed with you on this comment, but i do think you are imagining some kind of super restrcitive chargepiping setup that is at its max flow rate with a RHB5 (so less than 300cfm), thats the only way i can figure how a better flowing turbo would not increase cfm in a system. which is rediculous. Especially since normal 2.5in chargepiping will flow well in excess of 600cfm.

BTW: i now have a massive boner :rock:

rickles8099 · Post by **rickles8099** » Wed Aug 22, 2007 8:55 pm

budget_crx;62059 wrote:I still cannot believe you say this. All other things put aside (which are CLEARLY restrictions, and i believe everyone knows that a system flows only as well as its most restrictive part) stating that the size of a turbo will not have an effect on the overall flow of a system is absurd. 10psi in a T4 is NOT the same as 10psi in an RHB5, in any system. Look at the compressor maps for the two for yourself. The RHB5 map has been converted to show CFM and psi for easier understanding. Both maps DO NOT include any system pressure drop so they are equivalants of the same setup. clalculate the pressure drop (in the pressure ratio) of 1psi or so for yourself if you dont believe me.

As you can see with this RHB5 at 10psi (1.68 pressure ratio) the turbo can only reach a maximum of LESS THAN 300cfm, and thats with a shitty 60% efficiency rating, right at the choke line.

The T4 on the other hand at apporx. 10psi (1.68 pressure ratio) is pushing OVER 300psi with a 72% efficiency rating. and is closer to 500cfm before it reaches the choke line.
Even though a system can only handle x amount of CFM, saying that increasing the size of a turbo will not alter the cfm rating is crazy, the turbo plays just as important part of flow as the size and bends of chargepiping or the size of your TB/ intake runners. 10psi is not 10psi, if this were the case there would be no point in you upgrading from your old RHB5 to the T3/T4 you have now. in fact, with your logic your car would be faster if you would have kept the IHI turbo. :tard:

I am, i never disagreed with you on this comment, but i do think you are imagining some kind of super restrcitive chargepiping setup that is at its max flow rate with a RHB5 (so less than 300cfm), thats the only way i can figure how a better flowing turbo would not increase cfm in a system. which is rediculous. Especially since normal 2.5in chargepiping will flow well in excess of 600cfm.

BTW: i now have a massive boner :rock:

lets do this. ill bet you $100 that if you take the turbo off of your crx and swap in my turbo(or plainly a bigger one), dont change anything else(besides the fuel map if you want.), you will do the same amount of hp. why? because 10lbs of pressure with one size piping/throttle body/intake manifold/head(restriction as you call it) is still 10lbs.

think about this one. i did a 13.55 pass a couple of years ago with my big turbo and about the same size chargepiping as stolle has right now. he currently has a rhb5 and did a 13.63. very similar times, one big turbo, one small. according to your calculations, i should be pushing 2/5 more air than him thus creating more hp, equating to a faster 1/4 time.

budget_crx;62059 wrote:I still cannot believe you say this. All other things put aside (which are CLEARLY restrictions, and i believe everyone knows that a system flows only as well as its most restrictive part) stating that the size of a turbo will not have an effect on the overall flow of a system is absurd.

and i never said this. i have said that with the same setup, a bigger turbo doesnt mean more power than a smaller one. i have just stated that 10psi on a big turbo is the same cfm as a small turbo with the same chargepiping/throttle body/intake manifold/head(restriction, setup, whatever you want to call them).

but ill tell you what... you believe what you want, ill believe what i want. i go fast and youre still slow

(i hope you take that as a sarcastic joke and not personally because it is just a simple sarcastic joke.)

5thgen · Post by **5thgen** » Wed Aug 22, 2007 9:05 pm

If you count the turbine housing as a restriction....a bigger turbine housing will allow more flow at the same pressure.

99BlackHatch · Post by **99BlackHatch** » Wed Aug 22, 2007 9:24 pm

Does everyone realize that we DESTROYED this guy's thread!?

Maybe take the "TECH info" out of this thread and put it into another one?

rickles8099 · Post by **rickles8099** » Wed Aug 22, 2007 9:44 pm

5thgen;62081 wrote:If you count the turbine housing as a restriction....a bigger turbine housing will allow more flow at the same pressure.

and 10lbs of pressure is still 10lbs of pressure whether its from a big source or a small source.

the bigger source can push more air but when the air reach 10lbs of pressure in the system, the wastegate opens and you only get 10lbs of air. 10lbs of air with a big turbo equals 10lbs of air with small turbo.

5thgen · Post by **5thgen** » Wed Aug 22, 2007 9:58 pm

rickles8099;62092 wrote:and 10lbs of pressure is still 10lbs of pressure whether its from a big source or a small source.

the bigger source can push more air but when the air reach 10lbs of pressure in the system, the wastegate opens and you only get 10lbs of air. 10lbs of air with a big turbo equals 10lbs of air with small turbo.

that is true.....but you could flow 250 cfm at 10psi, and you can flow 350 cfm at 10psi (these are just random numbers). Equal pressure does not always equal flow.