Discuss: Bad economy

[SikofFalln]

You are wrong, its George Bush's fault, not mine, or yours, or anyone else.

Its not any one person's fault. Sure G Bush had something to do with it, but so did the dems who subsequently pushed for the loosening of the credit markets. The current state of the economy is not the solely the republicans or democrats fault, there is enough blame to go around for both parties.

I TOTALLY AGREE.

Bill Clinton started the sub-prime lending in the 90s which basically allowed people with shitty credit and no money to be approved for loans to buy homes way out of their league.

the economy is shit, everyone can agree on that. but i agree that you cannot blame it all on Bush. he's an easy scapegoat, but seriously. WAKE UP PEOPLE. a president doesn't run this country, congress does. and who has been running both houses for the past two years??? DEMOCRATS.


give it time, trust me. and then when nothing works and the economy is still shit you people will have no one to blame but yourselves. even obama's top advisors warned him to be honest with americans. a majority of his "plans" are physically impossible. especially during a time like this.
and ps. im really sick of people blaming bush when gas prices were high. read a fucking book. its suppy and demand. .

If anyone is actually still paying attention to politics you may have found out about Obama's supply side economics team, kind of Reganisk if any of you youngings can remember that far back. So taxes won't be going up, and there has been talk that the bush taxes cuts will stay in place.

As for oil, it is not strictly supply and demand, there were speculators driving up the prices basically gouging the consumer (I don't blame bush for this). IF it strictly supply and demand oil would not have been $150 a barrel 5-6 months ago and then $52 a barrel now. The demand has not dropped nearly that much. As for the dems being in control of congress, yes they have been for the last 2 years, but the republicans were in power for 6 before that. The current state of the economy is not from just the results of the last 2 years. For the last 40 years republicans have been in power for 28 of them.

[dodgin_it]

If anyone is actually still paying attention to politics you may have found out about Obama's supply side economics team, kind of Reganisk if any of you youngings can remember that far back. So taxes won't be going up, and there has been talk that the bush taxes cuts will stay in place.

first of all, obama cannot even be compared to Reagan. He was one of the best presidents this country has ever seen. i will give obama props because i do think that his econ team is fairly decent. however, your comment that "taxes won't be going up" is absolutely false. how else is the govt going to get money for all those wonderful social programs obama promises to create and fund? sure, the taxes won't go up if you make less than 250k or IF YOU DON'T PAY THEM AT ALL. if you fall into that category, you will be on the receiving end of "spreading the wealth." if you make more than 250k or you are a small business, you're fucked. your taxes will skyrocket. that way your hard earned money can go to lazy fucks that drain our welfare system AND DON'T EVEN PAY TAXES. 40% of the group that makes under 250k don't pay income taxes. so let's increase the tax on the rich and just give it away.

as far as the Bush tax cuts are concerned, some of them may stay in place. as they should. "if anyone still pays attention to politics," you would know that aside from negative media attention on Bush, his 8 year administration made some of the largest tax cuts in history which generated MORE revenue than the Clinton administration and Bush senior. small businesses employ hundreds of thousands of people and once they start experiencing the tax increase, alot of those people lose jobs. its not about oil companies and blah blah. people don't realize that the middle class (who assume they are going to benefit from obama's plans) will actually be the group getting fucked. you tax any business, the consequences will be higher sales tax, more expensive products and job loss. you tax the rich too much, they will hide their money off shores and stop spending. spending is what the economy needs to keep this country going. we didn't become the most prosperous nation in the world by being socialists. we're capitalists. if you don't like it, try your luck somewhere else.

[kikkinasphalt]

so where have you all been?

[GTI-Guy]

Good discussion

The one "safe" entity to blame are the investement houses like Goldman-Sachs that took shaky mortgages and packaged them into something that looked like a "respectable" investment, plus, the bond insurers that the Goldman-Sachs types used to help them perform that gift wrapping

They created a completely new investment vehicle and it was a house of cards from the get go, created with deceitful intent

[dodgin_it]

Good discussion

The one "safe" entity to blame are the investement houses like Goldman-Sachs that took shaky mortgages and packaged them into something that looked like a "respectable" investment, plus, the bond insurers that the Goldman-Sachs types used to help them perform that gift wrapping

They created a completely new investment vehicle and it was a house of cards from the get go, created with deceitful intent

very true. and then throw in fannie mae and freddie mac workers that profited from this whole thing! and they gave kick backs to politicians and other professional leaders. not to mention, when they were scheduled to explain themselves in a hearing in front of congress, one of the top guys called in sick. lemme say that again. he called in sick.

i mean seriously. how do u call in sick to congress?? lols. thats insane!

[GTI-Guy]

i mean seriously. how do u call in sick to congress?? lols. thats insane!

Because you can't plead the 5th amendment, as it's not a formal trial

[dodgin_it]

Because you can't plead the 5th amendment, as it's not a formal trial

ooooooooh. i see. nice.

[SikofFalln]

first of all, obama cannot even be compared to Reagan.

I wasn't really comparing, I was just saying that after all the rhetoric during the campaign, it was funny to see him appoint supply siders to his economic team.

however, your comment that "taxes won't be going up" is absolutely false.

No it's not, Obama has acknowledged that raising taxes (on anyone) giving the current state of the economy is not a good idea, so his 250k tax hike is on the back burner for now. I am not saying that he won't EVER raises taxes, we probably won't see it happen for at least a year, maybe two.

"if anyone still pays attention to politics," you would know that aside from negative media attention on Bush, his 8 year administration made some of the largest tax cuts in history which generated MORE revenue than the Clinton administration and Bush senior.

All very tru, but you have to also recognize that Bush has manged to run one of the largest federal deficits to date, not exactly conservative.

And just for the record, I voted for Bush.

[dodgin_it]

I wasn't really comparing, I was just saying that after all the rhetoric during the campaign, it was funny to see him appoint supply siders to his economic team.


No it's not, Obama has acknowledged that raising taxes (on anyone) giving the current state of the economy is not a good idea, so his 250k tax hike is on the back burner for now. I am not saying that he won't EVER raises taxes, we probably won't see it happen for at least a year, maybe two.



All very tru, but you have to also recognize that Bush has manged to run one of the largest federal deficits to date, not exactly conservative.

And just for the record, I voted for Bush.

Bush has run one of the largest deficits. but it wasn't small to begin with. Mr. Obama has already proposed more than ONE TRILLION bucks in spending for his 4 year term. thats not exactly the way to get out of massive debt. strategists agreed that obama's spending was larger than mccain. not to mention, obama is a fan of ear marked pork bills as well. part of the deficit is due to the war obviously. which yes expensive and yes necessary. any presidency during a war runs a large debt.

i still think obama will hike taxes but i'm hoping he proves me wrong.

and i voted for Bush too. but i'm prob one of the very few that DOESNT regret it.

thanks for your part in the discussion tho. you've made some good points and i welcome anyone that can teach me something me new.

[99RedBalloons]

Seriously, in my honest opinion, you cannot blame George Bush(fully) . He is the face and scapegoat of the majority of shady politicians. What is going on right now with the "big 3" is rediculous. If they did business properly, they would not be in this situation. Everyones comes on hard times and they deal with them themselves, they dont ask for a fucking handout (except democrats and the majority of people living in the "projects" ) Fuck taking money from people who earn it and giving to people who obviously arent smart enough to make it themselves. I dont feel bad for Obama, thats what he ran for. Time to buck up and deliver.

I have an issue with (except democrats and the majority of people living in the "projects" ) <---that. We happen to live in a country that gives more hand outs to businesses than to people in the "projects" or poor people. In fact, I've heard on several occasions that we have a corporate welfare government.